still on the fence, need some advice
#1
06-24-2012 | 11:10 AM
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From: St. Pete Flordia
still on the fence, need some advice
I'm new here, so forgive me, as I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times before. I just don't have the hang on the forums yet to find what I'm looking for when searching.
Anyway
So I'm new to the diesel world.
Have yet to pull the trigger on a truck yet.
I'm really drawn to the F250.
But I'm still on the fence about a couple of things.
First, MPG is a major concern since this will not only be my daily driver, but I also own a landscape company, so my truck sees a lot of miles, and the higher the gas bill, the less I see in my pocket.
It seems like the general consensus is that the powerstroke isn't the most fuel efficient diesel out there.
Second, I'm on the fence about the 6.0. You hear all kinds of bad things about them. I'm wondering just how much of that is hyped up over reaction, and I'm wondering if that is also just people hanging onto the bad hype from when the trucks first came out. Most of the 6.0's I'm seeing for sale have 100K on the clock, if something was going to go wrong, wouldn't it already have happened? Almost seems like this is a case where buying a truck with a few more miles on it would be a good thing.
I don't have any issues with the older 7.3, and if that would be the better route to go for someone like me, I'll really look into it. But around here at least, they are all getting way up there in miles and leak and sound like an old beat up work truck.
2003/04 are the "cheaper" of the "newer" trucks, but they still have that older body styling, which isn't a problem, but I really like how the newer 2005-07 truck has a bit more refined look about it. Seems like it would be a little more inviting on date night compared to the older trucks.
That and things like the bigger, dual pot brakes and stuff like that turn me on to the truck even more. Seems like the 5R110 tranny would do anything I would want it to do without worrying about breaking it.
The concern is, without having any prior experience with diesels, is the 6.0 a good truck to dive into?
From what I've been able to gather thus far, the 6.0 has a laundry list of things that need to be done to it. While I am decently mechanically inclined, all of my wrench turning experience has been on gas engines, mainly 90's sports cars. (i have an on going love affair with 240sx's and 300zx's) Is the learning curve with the 6.0 too steep?
I don't want to get in a position where I finally have the truck that I've been pinning over since I talked myself out of it and into a F150 and just end up hating it because it is going to take a ton of work to get road worthy, and will constantly need fixing just to keep it on the road.
Assuming I am just over reacting to all of the bad hype around the 6.0,
What info do I need to be learning? (other than "all of it")
What should I be looking for in a potential truck?
What should I be planning to do once I get the truck?
and/or shortly after having the truck?
I have seen a lot about EGR deletes and tuning. Is the EGR system really the main cause of the issues with these trucks?
I've seen people talk about studs and head gaskets. I'm assuming they mean head studs. Is this something that should be done, or planned to do? Or is this not really a concern if I'm staying pretty much stock?
Are there things that I should/could be looking to do to get the best MPG out of it?
I'm basically looking for any and all info, advice, tips, tricks, cheat codes I can get.
Really appreciate the help!
Anyway
So I'm new to the diesel world.
Have yet to pull the trigger on a truck yet.
I'm really drawn to the F250.
But I'm still on the fence about a couple of things.
First, MPG is a major concern since this will not only be my daily driver, but I also own a landscape company, so my truck sees a lot of miles, and the higher the gas bill, the less I see in my pocket.
It seems like the general consensus is that the powerstroke isn't the most fuel efficient diesel out there.
Second, I'm on the fence about the 6.0. You hear all kinds of bad things about them. I'm wondering just how much of that is hyped up over reaction, and I'm wondering if that is also just people hanging onto the bad hype from when the trucks first came out. Most of the 6.0's I'm seeing for sale have 100K on the clock, if something was going to go wrong, wouldn't it already have happened? Almost seems like this is a case where buying a truck with a few more miles on it would be a good thing.
I don't have any issues with the older 7.3, and if that would be the better route to go for someone like me, I'll really look into it. But around here at least, they are all getting way up there in miles and leak and sound like an old beat up work truck.
2003/04 are the "cheaper" of the "newer" trucks, but they still have that older body styling, which isn't a problem, but I really like how the newer 2005-07 truck has a bit more refined look about it. Seems like it would be a little more inviting on date night compared to the older trucks.
That and things like the bigger, dual pot brakes and stuff like that turn me on to the truck even more. Seems like the 5R110 tranny would do anything I would want it to do without worrying about breaking it.
The concern is, without having any prior experience with diesels, is the 6.0 a good truck to dive into?
From what I've been able to gather thus far, the 6.0 has a laundry list of things that need to be done to it. While I am decently mechanically inclined, all of my wrench turning experience has been on gas engines, mainly 90's sports cars. (i have an on going love affair with 240sx's and 300zx's) Is the learning curve with the 6.0 too steep?
I don't want to get in a position where I finally have the truck that I've been pinning over since I talked myself out of it and into a F150 and just end up hating it because it is going to take a ton of work to get road worthy, and will constantly need fixing just to keep it on the road.
Assuming I am just over reacting to all of the bad hype around the 6.0,
What info do I need to be learning? (other than "all of it")
What should I be looking for in a potential truck?
What should I be planning to do once I get the truck?
and/or shortly after having the truck?
I have seen a lot about EGR deletes and tuning. Is the EGR system really the main cause of the issues with these trucks?
I've seen people talk about studs and head gaskets. I'm assuming they mean head studs. Is this something that should be done, or planned to do? Or is this not really a concern if I'm staying pretty much stock?
Are there things that I should/could be looking to do to get the best MPG out of it?
I'm basically looking for any and all info, advice, tips, tricks, cheat codes I can get.
Really appreciate the help!
#2
06-26-2012 | 08:00 AM
BOMBARDIER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,208
Likes: 630
Welcome to DB!
I will take a stab at some of your questions. My 6.0 is my first diesel ever, and it may be a steep learning curve, but I feel if I hadn't gotten this truck, I wouldn't know as much as I do now. It almost forced me into learning about diesels, so in an essence, it was a good thing for sure. I'll answer in RED below.
There, hopefully that answers some questions and you will have more I'm sure, ask away, and again, welcome to DB!
I will take a stab at some of your questions. My 6.0 is my first diesel ever, and it may be a steep learning curve, but I feel if I hadn't gotten this truck, I wouldn't know as much as I do now. It almost forced me into learning about diesels, so in an essence, it was a good thing for sure. I'll answer in RED below.
I'm new here, so forgive me, as I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times before. I just don't have the hang on the forums yet to find what I'm looking for when searching.
Anyway
So I'm new to the diesel world.
Have yet to pull the trigger on a truck yet.
I'm really drawn to the F250.
But I'm still on the fence about a couple of things.
First, MPG is a major concern since this will not only be my daily driver, but I also own a landscape company, so my truck sees a lot of miles, and the higher the gas bill, the less I see in my pocket.
It seems like the general consensus is that the powerstroke isn't the most fuel efficient diesel out there.
I avg ~ `15mpg with a supercab/shortbed 4x4 auto. It is always tuned hot and I drive like an idiot. I'm sure with an EGR delete and good tuning 17-18mpg is possible, but you're right, the 6.0 isn't known for it's fuel mileage.
Second, I'm on the fence about the 6.0. You hear all kinds of bad things about them. I'm wondering just how much of that is hyped up over reaction, and I'm wondering if that is also just people hanging onto the bad hype from when the trucks first came out. Most of the 6.0's I'm seeing for sale have 100K on the clock, if something was going to go wrong, wouldn't it already have happened? Almost seems like this is a case where buying a truck with a few more miles on it would be a good thing.
You do hear all sorts of bad things. Unfortunately most people you hear it from have never owned one. Are their claims unwarranted? Not exactly, I mean they do have design flaws that no one can hide. 4 bolts per cylinder holding the heads on? Not a great setup, but it can be made to work (ARP head studs). The emissions systems need work (ie EGR delete), as this was one of the first diesel engines that needed to pass the stricter emissions testing at the time. The 6.0 runs 90% cleaner than a 7.3. Obviously it has issues however, but they can be fixed relatively cheap and easy now. The beauty of this hype is you can get these trucks fairly inexpensively now as well. Get it cheap, put a little into it as preventative fixes and you'll have a solid truck. The biggest issue I found owning a 6.0 under warranty was the lack of competent diesel mechanics to work on them. I can see why Ford had such high warranty claims, cause the techs just throw parts at them without ever properly diagnosing them.
I don't have any issues with the older 7.3, and if that would be the better route to go for someone like me, I'll really look into it. But around here at least, they are all getting way up there in miles and leak and sound like an old beat up work truck.
2003/04 are the "cheaper" of the "newer" trucks, but they still have that older body styling, which isn't a problem, but I really like how the newer 2005-07 truck has a bit more refined look about it. Seems like it would be a little more inviting on date night compared to the older trucks.
That and things like the bigger, dual pot brakes and stuff like that turn me on to the truck even more. Seems like the 5R110 tranny would do anything I would want it to do without worrying about breaking it.
The 05+ trucks had a LOT of improvements over the 03/04 trucks. I would steer away from an 03/04 because of the engine though. I prefer the 05 for the tighter turning radius (might be important for you maneuvering trailers all over.) due to the coil spring front end instead of the leaf setup on the 03/04's. Also the 05's have the bigger brakes and heavier duty front axle, and the interior is much nicer, IMO, though not enough to keep me from an 03/04 truck. The built in brake controller is sweet too. You're right about 7.3's, the owners seem to be awfully proud of a 200k mile truck rotted through leaking oil right? Seems like you can get a nice 6.0 for the same price with 1/2 the miles. The 5R110 is the best auto put into a light duty diesel IMO. With tuning they're solid up to the 550rwhp range, and the 6.4's are proving that.
The concern is, without having any prior experience with diesels, is the 6.0 a good truck to dive into?
From what I've been able to gather thus far, the 6.0 has a laundry list of things that need to be done to it. While I am decently mechanically inclined, all of my wrench turning experience has been on gas engines, mainly 90's sports cars. (i have an on going love affair with 240sx's and 300zx's) Is the learning curve with the 6.0 too steep?
I don't want to get in a position where I finally have the truck that I've been pinning over since I talked myself out of it and into a F150 and just end up hating it because it is going to take a ton of work to get road worthy, and will constantly need fixing just to keep it on the road.
Again, the 6.0 was my first diesel. Once you get past the junk on top of the motor, it's still just a pushrod V8 under there. It's all nuts and bolts. Laundry list? Eh, depends how you look at it. Most guys on these types of sites are all about mods anyways, and we would be doing most of this stuff to any brand diesel we bought. With a used 6.0 I'd do a few things for sure, knowing what I know now. My first investment would be AutoEnginuity with the enhanced Ford bundle so you can monitor and check some things. If you look at a used 6.0, monitor engine oil temp and engine coolant temp. The spread shouldn't be more than 15* ideally. If it's higher, the oil cooler is clogging and this is what leads to the issues with the egr cooler and headgaskets. So if that's in good shape, the truck is probably in good shape gasket wise. I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a truck though.
A simple coolant flush, and a coolant filter would do wonders for a 6.0 longevity. If the oil cooler is showing bad readings, just rebuild it for $250.
I would do:
gauges (fuel pressure, oil temp, coolant temp)
updated blue spring for fuel pressure
4" turbo back
leave the stock air filter
change oil with a good oil, if synthetic the popular choices are (Rotella T 5w-40 T6, Amsoil 5-40, Valvoline premium blue 5w-40) and if going standard oil, most use Rotella 15w-40. There are a few other good one's but those are the most popular.
Change oil filter and fuel filters and use ONLY OEM Ford (motorcraft) or International brand filters. Fram oil filters are ok for this application, they're the same as the motorcraft
Change all fluids (trans will need a HOT flush from a dealer most likely)
coolant filter
oil cooler rebuild (cheap enough and good insurance)
egr delete
Then I'd drive it til the wheels fell off personally.
Assuming I am just over reacting to all of the bad hype around the 6.0,
What info do I need to be learning? (other than "all of it")
What should I be looking for in a potential truck?
What should I be planning to do once I get the truck?
and/or shortly after having the truck?
Hopefully my above responses answer most of this...
I have seen a lot about EGR deletes and tuning. Is the EGR system really the main cause of the issues with these trucks?
I've seen people talk about studs and head gaskets. I'm assuming they mean head studs. Is this something that should be done, or planned to do? Or is this not really a concern if I'm staying pretty much stock?
If staying stock, I'd leave the studs out of the equation. It's not like you need to do it before it pops. If it blows a headgasket, just do it at that time. If you're keeping it stock power wise, I wouldn't even worry about it. Though I must say, you would probably like a good aggressive tow tune. It will do wonderful things with the transmission, especially if you're towing a lot. They use the turbo as an exhaust brake and keep the transmission firm and the converter locked up quite a bit. See my answers above about EGR and the main cause (oil cooler is root cause). I would definitely get rid of the EGR system if you don't have emissions testing though.
Are there things that I should/could be looking to do to get the best MPG out of it?
Keep the tire size small, and drive sensibly. A good open exhaust helps a little, delete the EGR completely...
I'm basically looking for any and all info, advice, tips, tricks, cheat codes I can get.
Really appreciate the help!
Anyway
So I'm new to the diesel world.
Have yet to pull the trigger on a truck yet.
I'm really drawn to the F250.
But I'm still on the fence about a couple of things.
First, MPG is a major concern since this will not only be my daily driver, but I also own a landscape company, so my truck sees a lot of miles, and the higher the gas bill, the less I see in my pocket.
It seems like the general consensus is that the powerstroke isn't the most fuel efficient diesel out there.
I avg ~ `15mpg with a supercab/shortbed 4x4 auto. It is always tuned hot and I drive like an idiot. I'm sure with an EGR delete and good tuning 17-18mpg is possible, but you're right, the 6.0 isn't known for it's fuel mileage.
Second, I'm on the fence about the 6.0. You hear all kinds of bad things about them. I'm wondering just how much of that is hyped up over reaction, and I'm wondering if that is also just people hanging onto the bad hype from when the trucks first came out. Most of the 6.0's I'm seeing for sale have 100K on the clock, if something was going to go wrong, wouldn't it already have happened? Almost seems like this is a case where buying a truck with a few more miles on it would be a good thing.
You do hear all sorts of bad things. Unfortunately most people you hear it from have never owned one. Are their claims unwarranted? Not exactly, I mean they do have design flaws that no one can hide. 4 bolts per cylinder holding the heads on? Not a great setup, but it can be made to work (ARP head studs). The emissions systems need work (ie EGR delete), as this was one of the first diesel engines that needed to pass the stricter emissions testing at the time. The 6.0 runs 90% cleaner than a 7.3. Obviously it has issues however, but they can be fixed relatively cheap and easy now. The beauty of this hype is you can get these trucks fairly inexpensively now as well. Get it cheap, put a little into it as preventative fixes and you'll have a solid truck. The biggest issue I found owning a 6.0 under warranty was the lack of competent diesel mechanics to work on them. I can see why Ford had such high warranty claims, cause the techs just throw parts at them without ever properly diagnosing them.
I don't have any issues with the older 7.3, and if that would be the better route to go for someone like me, I'll really look into it. But around here at least, they are all getting way up there in miles and leak and sound like an old beat up work truck.
2003/04 are the "cheaper" of the "newer" trucks, but they still have that older body styling, which isn't a problem, but I really like how the newer 2005-07 truck has a bit more refined look about it. Seems like it would be a little more inviting on date night compared to the older trucks.
That and things like the bigger, dual pot brakes and stuff like that turn me on to the truck even more. Seems like the 5R110 tranny would do anything I would want it to do without worrying about breaking it.
The 05+ trucks had a LOT of improvements over the 03/04 trucks. I would steer away from an 03/04 because of the engine though. I prefer the 05 for the tighter turning radius (might be important for you maneuvering trailers all over.) due to the coil spring front end instead of the leaf setup on the 03/04's. Also the 05's have the bigger brakes and heavier duty front axle, and the interior is much nicer, IMO, though not enough to keep me from an 03/04 truck. The built in brake controller is sweet too. You're right about 7.3's, the owners seem to be awfully proud of a 200k mile truck rotted through leaking oil right? Seems like you can get a nice 6.0 for the same price with 1/2 the miles. The 5R110 is the best auto put into a light duty diesel IMO. With tuning they're solid up to the 550rwhp range, and the 6.4's are proving that.
The concern is, without having any prior experience with diesels, is the 6.0 a good truck to dive into?
From what I've been able to gather thus far, the 6.0 has a laundry list of things that need to be done to it. While I am decently mechanically inclined, all of my wrench turning experience has been on gas engines, mainly 90's sports cars. (i have an on going love affair with 240sx's and 300zx's) Is the learning curve with the 6.0 too steep?
I don't want to get in a position where I finally have the truck that I've been pinning over since I talked myself out of it and into a F150 and just end up hating it because it is going to take a ton of work to get road worthy, and will constantly need fixing just to keep it on the road.
Again, the 6.0 was my first diesel. Once you get past the junk on top of the motor, it's still just a pushrod V8 under there. It's all nuts and bolts. Laundry list? Eh, depends how you look at it. Most guys on these types of sites are all about mods anyways, and we would be doing most of this stuff to any brand diesel we bought. With a used 6.0 I'd do a few things for sure, knowing what I know now. My first investment would be AutoEnginuity with the enhanced Ford bundle so you can monitor and check some things. If you look at a used 6.0, monitor engine oil temp and engine coolant temp. The spread shouldn't be more than 15* ideally. If it's higher, the oil cooler is clogging and this is what leads to the issues with the egr cooler and headgaskets. So if that's in good shape, the truck is probably in good shape gasket wise. I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a truck though.
A simple coolant flush, and a coolant filter would do wonders for a 6.0 longevity. If the oil cooler is showing bad readings, just rebuild it for $250.
I would do:
gauges (fuel pressure, oil temp, coolant temp)
updated blue spring for fuel pressure
4" turbo back
leave the stock air filter
change oil with a good oil, if synthetic the popular choices are (Rotella T 5w-40 T6, Amsoil 5-40, Valvoline premium blue 5w-40) and if going standard oil, most use Rotella 15w-40. There are a few other good one's but those are the most popular.
Change oil filter and fuel filters and use ONLY OEM Ford (motorcraft) or International brand filters. Fram oil filters are ok for this application, they're the same as the motorcraft
Change all fluids (trans will need a HOT flush from a dealer most likely)
coolant filter
oil cooler rebuild (cheap enough and good insurance)
egr delete
Then I'd drive it til the wheels fell off personally.
Assuming I am just over reacting to all of the bad hype around the 6.0,
What info do I need to be learning? (other than "all of it")
What should I be looking for in a potential truck?
What should I be planning to do once I get the truck?
and/or shortly after having the truck?
Hopefully my above responses answer most of this...
I have seen a lot about EGR deletes and tuning. Is the EGR system really the main cause of the issues with these trucks?
I've seen people talk about studs and head gaskets. I'm assuming they mean head studs. Is this something that should be done, or planned to do? Or is this not really a concern if I'm staying pretty much stock?
If staying stock, I'd leave the studs out of the equation. It's not like you need to do it before it pops. If it blows a headgasket, just do it at that time. If you're keeping it stock power wise, I wouldn't even worry about it. Though I must say, you would probably like a good aggressive tow tune. It will do wonderful things with the transmission, especially if you're towing a lot. They use the turbo as an exhaust brake and keep the transmission firm and the converter locked up quite a bit. See my answers above about EGR and the main cause (oil cooler is root cause). I would definitely get rid of the EGR system if you don't have emissions testing though.
Are there things that I should/could be looking to do to get the best MPG out of it?
Keep the tire size small, and drive sensibly. A good open exhaust helps a little, delete the EGR completely...
I'm basically looking for any and all info, advice, tips, tricks, cheat codes I can get.
Really appreciate the help!
There, hopefully that answers some questions and you will have more I'm sure, ask away, and again, welcome to DB!
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