Hpop and injector failure
#1
01-14-2019 | 09:48 PM
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Hpop and injector failure
Hello I have a 04 f250 late 6.0. Had a hpop go out. Had the ford dealer install new one. Two weeks later all 8 injectors went out. Got all 8 ford new ones installed. Less than 500 miles on those injectors, truck quit mechanic says 6 more are bad now. I might add the dealer when they did hpop didn’t do an oil change after. And we noticed after all this injector failure oil filter had brass looking flakes in it. Mechanic cleaned some injectors and got them to buzz test. Has new ficm also I might add. Can anyone help on trouble shooting this. Do you think it could be the hpop again with all brass in filter or from the old hpop that didn’t get an oil change after. Is it worth getting all my injectors done again if all this medal is in engine. Truck test good for high pressure oil. Help!!! Thanks
#3
01-14-2019 | 10:28 PM
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I don’t believe he checked fuel pressure. He cleaned the new injectors and got them to buzz. We are thinking that the brass flakes are getting into the injectors. Has of right now truck is torn apart debating if wanna throw more injectors in it to have the same problem. It’s unheard of that all 8 injectors going out at once. It just blows my mind all this injector problem came within 2 weeks after the hpop.
Last edited by Dirtydeedsdonecheap; 01-14-2019 at 10:32 PM.
#4
01-16-2019 | 04:12 AM
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#5
01-18-2019 | 09:05 PM
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From: DFW Texas
The buzz test tells you that the spool valves cycle and that your injector circuits are continuous.
As as far as saying 6 injectors are out, what are they doing? How were they diagnosed?
As bismic said, check fuel pressure. It is a critical item in these trucks.
After that, start flinging through the HP oil system checks/tests, bubble test, etc... If you don’t know what these are, bismic or I can point you in the right direction.
As as far as saying 6 injectors are out, what are they doing? How were they diagnosed?
As bismic said, check fuel pressure. It is a critical item in these trucks.
After that, start flinging through the HP oil system checks/tests, bubble test, etc... If you don’t know what these are, bismic or I can point you in the right direction.
#6
01-18-2019 | 10:55 PM
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Everyone keeps thinking fuel pressure But no one has said anything about my hpop going out and a week later 8 injectors going out and all new 8 replaced Then damn near all going out and finding brass in oil. And assuming brass and medal that is causing injectors to go out. And brass is in my oil filter after hpop went out. And Ckne fo the concussion that’s what is plugging my injectors is the medal from my old hpop going out.
#7
01-19-2019 | 06:37 AM
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You didn't answer Crawler's questions. It would be helpful to know what the injectors are doing .... and what the code numbers are. Also, a contribution test would be wise.
Who knows what is going on w/ the brass. If you want to know if brass (or any metal) is bad if it is in the oil ........ then yes, it is bad. Yes, metal in the oil can cause issues w/ the injectors, if the metal reaches the injectors. That said, be aware that the oil goes through a spool valve, pushes down an intensifier piston, and then flows out the second spool valve. When you say brass is plugging the injector, I don't think it would. It might cause accelerated wear. How fast that wear happens who knows. Brass is much sifter than the injector metallurgy..
I don't remember the metallurgy of the HPOP internals. I do know that there is a brass plunger in the oil system for the oil cooler bypass valve, so the HPOP isn't the only source of it (assuming it does have brass internals). Maybe the metal is coming from that brass plunger and not the HPOP. Again - who knows.
Has the IPR been pulled? It has a screen on it to catch metal. That might show something. Same with inspecting the HPOP reservoir screen.
The procedure for changing an HPOP includes cleaning out the HPOP oil reservoir and its screen and the oil flow path to the HPOP. Was this done? The procedure doesn't require replacing, or even cleaning, the branch tubes and oil rails ... IIRC. Some Techs do though. When they do, it is an expensive bill.
As far as an oil change goes ......... yes it should have been done. That is a shared responsibility between you and the shop IMO.
As far as the the HPOP going out again ............. It could happen and it has happened. I don't care for the OEM HPOPs. I have heard of cases of finding "new-in-the-box ones bad. There are much better choices in the aftermarket. That said, I do know that you don't condemn one without the information Crawler is suggesting you get.
I also know that you could get this issue of brass in the oil resolved and still have all 8 injectors fail again, from low fuel pressure. We are just trying to keep that from happening.
Who knows what is going on w/ the brass. If you want to know if brass (or any metal) is bad if it is in the oil ........ then yes, it is bad. Yes, metal in the oil can cause issues w/ the injectors, if the metal reaches the injectors. That said, be aware that the oil goes through a spool valve, pushes down an intensifier piston, and then flows out the second spool valve. When you say brass is plugging the injector, I don't think it would. It might cause accelerated wear. How fast that wear happens who knows. Brass is much sifter than the injector metallurgy..
I don't remember the metallurgy of the HPOP internals. I do know that there is a brass plunger in the oil system for the oil cooler bypass valve, so the HPOP isn't the only source of it (assuming it does have brass internals). Maybe the metal is coming from that brass plunger and not the HPOP. Again - who knows.
Has the IPR been pulled? It has a screen on it to catch metal. That might show something. Same with inspecting the HPOP reservoir screen.
The procedure for changing an HPOP includes cleaning out the HPOP oil reservoir and its screen and the oil flow path to the HPOP. Was this done? The procedure doesn't require replacing, or even cleaning, the branch tubes and oil rails ... IIRC. Some Techs do though. When they do, it is an expensive bill.
As far as an oil change goes ......... yes it should have been done. That is a shared responsibility between you and the shop IMO.
As far as the the HPOP going out again ............. It could happen and it has happened. I don't care for the OEM HPOPs. I have heard of cases of finding "new-in-the-box ones bad. There are much better choices in the aftermarket. That said, I do know that you don't condemn one without the information Crawler is suggesting you get.
I also know that you could get this issue of brass in the oil resolved and still have all 8 injectors fail again, from low fuel pressure. We are just trying to keep that from happening.
Last edited by bismic1; 01-19-2019 at 06:40 AM.
#8
01-19-2019 | 11:47 AM
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From: DFW Texas
Everyone keeps thinking fuel pressure But no one has said anything about my hpop going out and a week later 8 injectors going out and all new 8 replaced Then damn near all going out and finding brass in oil. And assuming brass and medal that is causing injectors to go out. And brass is in my oil filter after hpop went out. And Ckne fo the concussion that’s what is plugging my injectors is the medal from my old hpop going out.
Part of the issue that bismic and I are dealing with is a lack of information.
We do our best to provide advice and information when questions are asked. However remote diagnosing these trucks isn’t the simplest task.
We give suggestions based on the information at hand and based on failures we have seen in our line of work.
If if you were able to send data logs of what was going on when the truck failed, when it was diagnosed, when it failed again, and when it was rediagnosed. Plus all of the test perameters and data along the way. Then we could probably nail it down pretty fast.
Unfortunately its it’s like walking into the er saying you can’t see. You tell the dr that you had your appendix removed last month. But theyre not allowed to run a full battery of tests to diagnose you. The dr can’t give an accurate diagnosis. They can only give suggestions and try and point you down the right path.
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