Wrench Turner: Boat mechanic that doesnt know crap about diesel.
Model: F450 Crew Cab
Year: 2006
Engine: 6.0L Diesel
Miles: 111,000
Mods: Stock

Recent Work: Secondary frame rail filter changed but ran fine afterwards. Took to mom and pop shop torn apart but to stupid to work on diesels. Solder fix to FICM Voltage reading around 48 Key on, crank, and buzz.

Story:
This is my dads daily driver from work to and back. It is not used as a work horse even though its setup that way. The initial problem was hard cold starts to finally only start with some ether then nothing. SO he took it to a mom and pop garage that had it for a year while scratching their butts and doing nothing. I got this truck a week ago and put it back together just the normal GPCM bracket off and the FICM bracket off with the air filter box and tubes off. So thats all back together. I did the voltage test on the FICM it read fine but still decided to hit the solder points. (I solder for a living so all good) Got good readings again but no start no smoke no nothing out the pipes.

Turn key on ...engine goes through its cycle. Wait for GP light to shut off and crank. Still nothing. Yes i did it i put ether straight down its throat and nothing! Not even a want to start symptom.

No codes, pulled all suggested fuses and replaced, checked relays ... all click open and close. Turbo spins freely nothing binding it. One issue though is i have the airbox off still and there is a aluminum tube missing off the passenger side of the turbo that goes to a coil in front of the radiator? I have to get it back from the shop.... would that cause a no start?

Thanks for reading and any suggestions.

 

When you're cranking watch the oil pressure gauge on the dash. Does it eventually come up? (Might take upwards of 5-7 seconds of full cranking for it to move). If not, the low pressure oil pump is likely shot. If it does, likely it's a high pressure oil issue. At least the no smoke points to this. Typically on 05+ they just die randomly though, they don't die a slow death like this.

AVOID using any ether on this at all! You risk blowing the heads clean off the block. Glow plugs are a good way to ignite ether when the engine isn't turning over and it goes boom.

This aluminum tube that is missing.... I'm trying to picture what it is. Can you get a picture? Is it just the intercooler piping? That shouldn't cause it to not start, but it likely wont drive down the road very well without it (no boost).

 

Yes the pipe to the intercooler is missing. Thank you for that. The oil pressure guage goes up before cranking even begins now that you mention it. Almost leads me to believe pcm is bad I hope not thats why im asking you guys. Ether was only used once after cycle and cranking the engine. Dont plan on using it again.

Fuel is getting to the top filter though so it has to be atleast dripping into the cylinders enough to make it cough right? It goes through the buzz cycle fine.

Now the oil pressure thing you have me confused ... if it doesnt move its low pressure pump if it does it high pressure? Ummm then what is it supposed to do?

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Update: Its like 10 degrees here. Truck plugged in just went out and cranked it over went through first cycle with a 7 second crank. Oil pressure guage didnt move. Did a second cycle and 7 second crank and oil guage moved up to half way. Did a 3rd cycle then crank and oil pressure almost went right up instantly.

 

Ok, you've got good low pressure oil. On these trucks, we have a standard low pressure oil system like every other motor on the planet, it's just your engine oil, oil pump etc... However, on a 6.0, we have what is called HEUI injection, I'm sure you've seen the term around. It's Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injection. We have a high pressure oil system that feeds engine oil compressed at high pressure to the injectors to force them open. We refer to this pump as the HPOP (high pressure oil pump) It sits in the back of the motor down in the valley under the turbo. It is gear driven. So, we can monitor it's output by watching ICP (injection control pressure) on a scanner. We watch ICP actual and ICP desired. Desired is what the PCM wants to see, and actual is what the pump is really putting out. ICP actual needs to hit 525psi for the PCM to even say it's ok for your engine to start. If there is a leak in the high pressure oil system, or the pump is weak, you get no start. If you know someone with a scanner or have one yourself you can watch these values. The pump needs a MIN of 525psi just to fire, but if you're driving down the road it will go up to a max of 4000psi on the 05+ trucks.

You can try unplugging the ICP sensor and starting it too. That is located in the passenger side valve cover. If it starts easier with it unplugged, get a new sensor. If it doesn't change, just leave it there.

If you don't have access to a scanner, pull the IPR valve. (Injection pressure regulator). Basically this is a simple valve/regulator that opens to allow more oil in depending on your throttle inputs. It's regulating your HPOP. Make sense? If you pull it, and find the screen on the end damaged and metal shavings on it... it's likely the HPOP is shot. If not, I'd leave it alone.

You can also trace down leaks in the HPOP with shop air. Buy a new IPR pig tail, and hook it up to the IPR valve, hook a 12V source to it, to force it closed, and hook shop air up to the ICP sensor hole (with appropriate adapters) and listen for leaks. Don't leave the IPR hooked up too long, it can burn out being wired up like that. Despite what some will tell you, you can not force the IPR closed with a scanner, it will only go to 85% max.

I'm not 100% certain it's a high pressure oil issue at this time, but it seems likely.

When you're cranking all these times, are you getting any smoke out of the exhaust?

 

Ok the IPC sensor reads the oil pressure value right? So unplugging it would send a fault code to the PCM still not allowing it to start i would think? But you have given me a start and i appreciate it. I just hope its not the HPOP and something less expensive.

Before it went to shop it would try to start barely but since i got it home and hooked it up with brand new batteries (load tested before purchase) it will just spin over with no smoke at all. Even as mentioned above with the evil juice it wouldnt fire at all.

 

With the ICP disconnected it send a default pressure of 2000psi to the computer so the computer thinks it has that pressure, it is a SAFE mode Or LIMP mode, incase the ICP sensor fails it will still llow you to drive the truck, but if the sensor develops a short it will not run. A short anywhere in the sensor circuit will not allow it to run, even the fan sensor at top of the fan schroud can keep it from running is wires are shorted.

 

Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. My buddy at a another shop has Fords ids 7.9 software he doesnt use and i have a older laptop. Im thinking about getting a pc to(usb) to obd II. My question is what does ford require as far as that type of cable? CAN or ELM ??? As i mentioned im a marine mechanic that works on GAS motors.

 

My guess is it's a specific cable, doubt you can just buy a generic cable, but not sure. I know with our AE software the software actually locks to a specific serial number cable. The cables alone for our software are over $100.

 

Update: Pulled the IPR hooked 12 volts to one pin and ground the other. No movement from the valve at all. Switched the polarities and still nothing from the valve. Doing a leak down test on the HPOP system next. But im guessing that valve should of did something with 12 volts connected to it.

 

did you pull the valve out so you could see it? CHECK THE CONNECTOR TOO, I know some have had the connector almost burn off. If it doesnt move then it is most likely burned up, you could probably do an ohm test on it but I don't know what the readings are supposed to be.