Batmowheel exposed
#11
10-10-2012 | 10:22 PM
Diesel Wrench
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 996
Likes: 49
From: Fallon, NV
Why does that matter?
For one thing, this turbo appears to be a waste gate turbo. Ours isn't, what difference does that make? I don't know, but it should stand for something.
Second, in my quick Google search "Borg Warner S400sx 80mm turbo", it looked more popular with 4 and 6 cylinder racers than diesels. I don't know that much about turbos, but seems like this turbo is marketed towards the Supra guys.
Finally, I have read plenty from Batmowheel users and even spoke with Bullseye. The bottom line was that when used IN THE TURBO ON MY POWER STROKE, there would be about 100lb/ft of torque increase and about 10 hp.
Until we can see no kidding dyno numbers (that mapping may as well be cave drawings for all of the sense I can make of it
) from a user that has put a Batmowheel into a 6.0 Garret, this is just an interesting chart of how things work to me.
Sorry, Mike, but it looks apples to oranges to me, too.
For one thing, this turbo appears to be a waste gate turbo. Ours isn't, what difference does that make? I don't know, but it should stand for something.
Second, in my quick Google search "Borg Warner S400sx 80mm turbo", it looked more popular with 4 and 6 cylinder racers than diesels. I don't know that much about turbos, but seems like this turbo is marketed towards the Supra guys.
Finally, I have read plenty from Batmowheel users and even spoke with Bullseye. The bottom line was that when used IN THE TURBO ON MY POWER STROKE, there would be about 100lb/ft of torque increase and about 10 hp.
Until we can see no kidding dyno numbers (that mapping may as well be cave drawings for all of the sense I can make of it
) from a user that has put a Batmowheel into a 6.0 Garret, this is just an interesting chart of how things work to me. Sorry, Mike, but it looks apples to oranges to me, too.
#13
10-12-2012 | 07:57 AM
Thread Starter
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BOMBARDIER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,208
Likes: 630
Karl, S480 is quite a popular turbo for a 6.0 to be used as an atmospheric turbo in a compound setup, it moves quite a bit of air. They've used a few of them as singles on 6.4's too, though I personally think it's too big as a single for a DD. It's a pretty common charger in the diesel performance world.
Bill from PHP did the same thing, I'll try and look it up, I believe it was on a powermax on his 6.0. He did a bunch of runs back to back and even wrote tunes specifically for each to try and get the max potential out of each, every run the batmowheel turbo was down on power and up on EGT's. I'll see if I can find that too.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying info! MPD is the only one I've seen claim gains (the +100 ft/lbs Karl is talking about) but I bet they sell more batmowheels than anyone...
EDIT* I just read it and Bill from PHP tested it on a 38R in a 7.3 (very popular 7.3 turbo upgrade).
Yes MPD did back to back testing on a 6.0 too and here's the results:
Before and after Craig tested the batmowheel on my 03 turbo (it's worth noting this truck also was running 190cc injetors, so there was no way a stock turbo would ever clean these up, so maybe if it's severely over-fueled the batmo helps???)
stock numbers: 482.1hp @760.2ftlbs
Batmowheel: 493.5hp @867.8ftlbs
Back pressure& Boost
Stock: 42psi&36psi
Batmo: 42psi&38psi
What's interesting about that... I'm pretty sure Craig is no longer even using them.
Quoted from BIGRPOWR on CompD:
I did a similar test with a precision 75 and a 75 batmo ... The batmo lost by 20 at peak and by 100hp at 4000 rpm's , this was on a 6.4.
Really good thread going on CompD about it: http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...d.php?t=142796
Some interesting posts in there from MarkBroviak including dyno graphs...
Another thing worth pointing out here... for those of us who aren't great at reading graphs (myself included) despite what you "think" you see on that graph, the batmowheel "comes up sooner on boost" is not true. Look at the ~77k rpm area... notice how the batmo line is to the left. This doesn't mean it's building boost quicker, it means at a given pressure driving the turbo, the cast wheel is moving more air. Notice the bottom of the chart, it's mass flow... meaning it's not flowing as much there either.
Bill from PHP did the same thing, I'll try and look it up, I believe it was on a powermax on his 6.0. He did a bunch of runs back to back and even wrote tunes specifically for each to try and get the max potential out of each, every run the batmowheel turbo was down on power and up on EGT's. I'll see if I can find that too.
Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just relaying info! MPD is the only one I've seen claim gains (the +100 ft/lbs Karl is talking about) but I bet they sell more batmowheels than anyone...
EDIT* I just read it and Bill from PHP tested it on a 38R in a 7.3 (very popular 7.3 turbo upgrade).
Yes MPD did back to back testing on a 6.0 too and here's the results:
Before and after Craig tested the batmowheel on my 03 turbo (it's worth noting this truck also was running 190cc injetors, so there was no way a stock turbo would ever clean these up, so maybe if it's severely over-fueled the batmo helps???)
stock numbers: 482.1hp @760.2ftlbs
Batmowheel: 493.5hp @867.8ftlbs
Back pressure& Boost
Stock: 42psi&36psi
Batmo: 42psi&38psi
What's interesting about that... I'm pretty sure Craig is no longer even using them.
Quoted from BIGRPOWR on CompD:
I did a similar test with a precision 75 and a 75 batmo ... The batmo lost by 20 at peak and by 100hp at 4000 rpm's , this was on a 6.4.
Really good thread going on CompD about it: http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...d.php?t=142796
Some interesting posts in there from MarkBroviak including dyno graphs...
Another thing worth pointing out here... for those of us who aren't great at reading graphs (myself included) despite what you "think" you see on that graph, the batmowheel "comes up sooner on boost" is not true. Look at the ~77k rpm area... notice how the batmo line is to the left. This doesn't mean it's building boost quicker, it means at a given pressure driving the turbo, the cast wheel is moving more air. Notice the bottom of the chart, it's mass flow... meaning it's not flowing as much there either.
Last edited by Mdub707; 10-12-2012 at 08:25 AM.
#15
10-12-2012 | 12:58 PM
Diesel Wrench
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 996
Likes: 49
From: Fallon, NV
Not to belabor this further, but Bullseye told me that the if you have a smokey tune, the Batmowheel could clean that up. Further, you could have a heavier fuel curve added. I forgot about reading those results that showed an additional 100lb/ft of torque with those injectors.
It seems to me that for the 6.0 with a stock turbo, the Batmowheel would work great. These other turbos that are getting bad results after a Batmowheel is installed isn't too hard to figure out, these are purpose built turbos that are having "random" parts installed.
Honestly, until I started reading feedback on MTW Stage 1 turbos, I was all hot and heavy about putting a Batmowheel into my stock turbo.
It seems to me that for the 6.0 with a stock turbo, the Batmowheel would work great. These other turbos that are getting bad results after a Batmowheel is installed isn't too hard to figure out, these are purpose built turbos that are having "random" parts installed.
Honestly, until I started reading feedback on MTW Stage 1 turbos, I was all hot and heavy about putting a Batmowheel into my stock turbo.
#16
10-12-2012 | 01:33 PM
[QUOTE=Karls03;947705]Why does that matter?
The reason I said why does that matter is because MDub was not comparing to the 6.0 turbo. But was comparing overall data on a Bat Mo Wheel vs. cast. More than likely the outcome will be the same no matter what turbo this wheel is in. Im sure that several test will show that a bat mo wheel will flow more but you have to take in consideration all atomospheric conditions like temp, humidity, barometric and everthing. The only way to truly test this theory is is a controlled enviroment on a engine dyno with all the same conditions.
The reason I said why does that matter is because MDub was not comparing to the 6.0 turbo. But was comparing overall data on a Bat Mo Wheel vs. cast. More than likely the outcome will be the same no matter what turbo this wheel is in. Im sure that several test will show that a bat mo wheel will flow more but you have to take in consideration all atomospheric conditions like temp, humidity, barometric and everthing. The only way to truly test this theory is is a controlled enviroment on a engine dyno with all the same conditions.
#17
10-13-2012 | 05:08 PM
Thread Starter
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BOMBARDIER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,208
Likes: 630
[quote=Scott@Alligator;948255]
It's been done on several trucks, back to back runs changing nothing but the wheel and it always seems to fall short. It doesn't move more air down low either, people are reading the graph wrong.
Now the test data I posted was done by Borg Warner, on very sophisticated equipment, it's about as high end of a test that will ever get done.
Why does that matter?
The reason I said why does that matter is because MDub was not comparing to the 6.0 turbo. But was comparing overall data on a Bat Mo Wheel vs. cast. More than likely the outcome will be the same no matter what turbo this wheel is in. Im sure that several test will show that a bat mo wheel will flow more but you have to take in consideration all atomospheric conditions like temp, humidity, barometric and everthing. The only way to truly test this theory is is a controlled enviroment on a engine dyno with all the same conditions.
The reason I said why does that matter is because MDub was not comparing to the 6.0 turbo. But was comparing overall data on a Bat Mo Wheel vs. cast. More than likely the outcome will be the same no matter what turbo this wheel is in. Im sure that several test will show that a bat mo wheel will flow more but you have to take in consideration all atomospheric conditions like temp, humidity, barometric and everthing. The only way to truly test this theory is is a controlled enviroment on a engine dyno with all the same conditions.
It's been done on several trucks, back to back runs changing nothing but the wheel and it always seems to fall short. It doesn't move more air down low either, people are reading the graph wrong.
Now the test data I posted was done by Borg Warner, on very sophisticated equipment, it's about as high end of a test that will ever get done.
#18
10-13-2012 | 05:23 PM
Diesel Wrench
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 996
Likes: 49
From: Fallon, NV
Yes MPD did back to back testing on a 6.0 too and here's the results:
Before and after Craig tested the batmowheel on my 03 turbo (it's worth noting this truck also was running 190cc injetors, so there was no way a stock turbo would ever clean these up, so maybe if it's severely over-fueled the batmo helps???)
stock numbers: 482.1hp @760.2ftlbs
Batmowheel: 493.5hp @867.8ftlbs
Back pressure& Boost
Stock: 42psi&36psi
Batmo: 42psi&38psi
What's interesting about that... I'm pretty sure Craig is no longer even using them.
.
Before and after Craig tested the batmowheel on my 03 turbo (it's worth noting this truck also was running 190cc injetors, so there was no way a stock turbo would ever clean these up, so maybe if it's severely over-fueled the batmo helps???)
stock numbers: 482.1hp @760.2ftlbs
Batmowheel: 493.5hp @867.8ftlbs
Back pressure& Boost
Stock: 42psi&36psi
Batmo: 42psi&38psi
What's interesting about that... I'm pretty sure Craig is no longer even using them.
.
It's been done on several trucks, back to back runs changing nothing but the wheel and it always seems to fall short. It doesn't move more air down low either, people are reading the graph wrong.
Now the test data I posted was done by Borg Warner, on very sophisticated equipment, it's about as high end of a test that will ever get done.
#19
10-14-2012 | 09:43 AM
Thread Starter
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BOMBARDIER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,208
Likes: 630
My only issue with that...
dyno's are VERY easy to manipulate and so far the only dyno sheets that show a gain are the ones coming from the guys who sell the most batmowheels. Like I said, the guy who did that dyno to show an improvement... he doesn't even use batmo's on his truck anymore. What does that tell you?
Dyno's aside, I believe the BW compressor map more than anything. That doesn't lie.
dyno's are VERY easy to manipulate and so far the only dyno sheets that show a gain are the ones coming from the guys who sell the most batmowheels. Like I said, the guy who did that dyno to show an improvement... he doesn't even use batmo's on his truck anymore. What does that tell you?
Dyno's aside, I believe the BW compressor map more than anything. That doesn't lie.
#20
10-15-2012 | 09:35 AM
Diesel Fan
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 79
Likes: 9
I'm throwing my hat in the ring... Mdub, Can you find a head to head dyno test with a stock 6.0 running tunes only batmowheel vs. stock? The results you found are great for guys running purpose built trucks but, means nothing to the guy like me that wants to know if it would make a difference on a daily driver. Putting a batmowheel in a big purpose built turbo is like building a high compression gas race engine then showing dyno results showing how bad it performs on 87 octane...
I don't mean to sound like I'm doggin your post. I like the info and I'm sure it is useful for the guys running big power. As a guy just trying to get the most bang for my buck on a relatively stock 6.0 I would love to see a dyno result reflecting that.
I don't mean to sound like I'm doggin your post. I like the info and I'm sure it is useful for the guys running big power. As a guy just trying to get the most bang for my buck on a relatively stock 6.0 I would love to see a dyno result reflecting that.
