5.9L CR Performance Discussion of 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with Common Rail Injection Related To Performance And Longevity

How important is air removal?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 02-23-2010 | 12:00 PM
NadirPoint's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 186
From: CO
Default

Originally Posted by Begle1
But HOW do these pumps remove air?
They'll tell you it's a trade secret, or as I like to refer to it - magic.
 
  #12  
Old 02-23-2010 | 04:11 PM
kazairl's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,139
Likes: 126
From: Nebraska Panhandle
Default

Originally Posted by Kilroy
Put on a mechanical gauge and confirmed that I need a lift pump. Besides just pumping, products like Air Dog and FASS also remove water and air. Then there are pumps like Walbro, Holly Blue and MITUSA that only pump, use your own filter.

Is the stock filter that bad? Truck seems to remove water now.

I've been told air removal will prolong life of injectors. Is it really that important? Costs a lot more money do to that.

Truck is stock and will probably remain basically that way.

Thanks

Since the key word is STOCK here, I would say an Air Dog, FASS, MITUSA are more than you need.

The Walbro needs some fabbing to make it work but other wise it is a pretty good pump.

Don't the Holly Blues have reliability issues pumping diesel fuel? or is that the Holley Black?

I have an Airtex which is a stock replacement on a 2nd Gen. Not sure what they would use for a 3rd Gen. But mine has lasted 2 years so far. Picked it up at Carquest for like 180 something
 
  #13  
Old 02-23-2010 | 05:59 PM
Uncle Bubba's Avatar
BOMBARDIER
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,854
Likes: 1,112
From: Illinois?
Default

The Walbro's are great pumps and have been the standard in high performance gassers for years, the problem with them is the seals they use don't hold up since they changed our fuel over and started blending the ethanol.

I've always thought this was the problem with most of the pumps out there that we could use that are a much cheaper solution to our problems. If we could just find the right kind of seals to replace the ones that these pumps are built with we could use about any of them. Now just try to find those seals, cause i never could.
 
  #14  
Old 02-23-2010 | 07:17 PM
NadirPoint's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 186
From: CO
Default

A little 2-stroke or similar such lubricity add in the fuel works wonders for that. There's an Edelbrock 1792 been on my 1st Gen for over three years, no problem.
 
The following users liked this post:
mxtuner1 (02-24-2010)
  #15  
Old 02-24-2010 | 01:51 AM
mxtuner1's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 160
Likes: 12
From: Nebraska
Default

Air is removed by a special screen in the pump housing on airdog or fass. Airdog has 2 air removers, fass only one. On stock truck - air removal plus finally getting enough fuel to the injectors is good for 70 horses. What will surprise you - if the 70 horses did not -is the water that you can drain off at fill ups - usually nearly a pint per tank and worse in summer during vacations. There is a lot of benefits to either the Fass or the Airdog - more power -GET RID OF AIR! - GET RID OF WATER!- easy drain of water - easy change of filter -filter better than stock - and another - whatever fuel you don't inject in the engine is used to lubricate the injector pump - and cool it too - both really good benefits. I read somewhere (don't quote me - please) but the stock lift pump flows 35 gallons per hour normally so you get 35 gallons filtered through your filters. My Fass 150 flows 150 gallons per hour so my returned fuel gets filtered over and over again nearly 5 times more per hour. Your truck will start much easier too. I wish I owned both companies-. And NadirPoint is right - 2 stroke is the answer - it quiets your engine noises amazingly.
 
  #16  
Old 02-25-2010 | 01:14 PM
kazairl's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,139
Likes: 126
From: Nebraska Panhandle
Default

OH so I can put an Airdog on my truck and gain 70 horse? AWESOME! Sign me up man! Don't let too many people know about this. PRICES WILL GO THROUGH THE ROOF!
 
  #17  
Old 02-25-2010 | 05:34 PM
jms_shepherd's Avatar
Diesel Fan
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 38
Likes: 2
Default

You can gain HP if you're CP3 is being starved because the lift pump sucks (trust me I know) I had stacked chips in mine and when I replaced the liftpump it was a totally different truck at WOT....70hp is possible if you're running mods that starves the pump it's common sense. I know a friend of mine that had stacked chips also and a mild injector (50hp). He dynoed 2 in that month one without a aftermarket lift pump and another with it. I gained about 85hp I believe just because his system wasn't being starved....
 

Last edited by jms_shepherd; 02-25-2010 at 05:36 PM.
  #18  
Old 02-26-2010 | 08:35 AM
NadirPoint's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 186
From: CO
Default

Originally Posted by jms_shepherd
You can gain HP if you're CP3 is being starved ....
What's that got to do with "air removal?" There's many far less expensive fuel pumps available that will keep your engine "well fed."
 
  #19  
Old 02-26-2010 | 03:44 PM
kazairl's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,139
Likes: 126
From: Nebraska Panhandle
Default

Originally Posted by NadirPoint
What's that got to do with "air removal?" There's many far less expensive fuel pumps available that will keep your engine "well fed."
Exactly! The most improtant thing is to get the fuel TO the IP not how much air is in the system.(should make note I am talking about the little entrained bubbles that theses 2 pumps in question are supposed to take out. Not huge amounts) It is also common sense that a good lift pump( regardless of any magic air removing thingamabobbies, even a STOCK one) will give you more power than a failing one. Besides the person my post was refering to was saying that a STOCK truck will gain 70 horse. Sure if the original lift pump was bad to begin with.

Is an Airdog/ FASS a good pump? yes. Is it convient because it also houses 2 filters? yes Does its magical "air removing" propeties make it the bestest and the mostest? doubt it.


Can you actually prove with DYNO numbers or timeslips, that these magical lift pumps give you more horsepower than a good lift pump? As in how much HP does JUST the air removing qualities give you?
 
  #20  
Old 02-26-2010 | 04:27 PM
Uncle Bubba's Avatar
BOMBARDIER
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,854
Likes: 1,112
From: Illinois?
Default

When you look at this from the point of amount of fuel delivered to the injectors you also have to understand that all the measurement of pressure is, is the measurement of restriction in the system. Your not actually measuring the amount of fuel that passes through the pumps, only the amount of restriction in the flow of movement. You could simply reduce the size of the fuel lines using the same factory pumps if all you needed was increased PSI, but this would be pointless.

To pass judgment on any fuel system you have to measure the flow amounts to the pumps. In my case I removed all the stock lines and all Banjo bolts from my system to remove as much restriction as possible and installed fuel lines over twice the size of stock. Considering now that I am carrying over twice the factory psi in this new system it has to be 10 times the amount of fuel flow of the stock system.

Now is some of this new found fuel flow consisting air, probably. But I think there is plenty of fuel passing through there to eliminate the amount of air entrapped as an issue. Yes, I do think that the AirDog and FASS pumps are good pumps but the original question here is "how Important is air removal".

To accurately gauge the amount of fuel being delivered you would have to install a flow meter both before and after the Injector's to see how much is being delivered and how much is being returned to the tank through the overflow system.
 


Quick Reply: How important is air removal?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 PM.